First impressions, thoughts and some questions

[jensb]

Hello,

I just discovered MMex (1.5.1, 64bit, installed from a .deb package) and I must say I'm quite relieved that there is an open source finance app with this feature set, after considering other options like Moneydance, KmyMoney and Firefly. I'm now trying to get this to work with me, or vice versa, and have some quetions. Maybe somebody can help getting me started?

Please note that I'd be perfectly happy to help implement these features if they aren't planned yet, but may need some guidance on how to get started. I do some software development, but so far none in C++.

First things first, I run KDE Neon (based on Ubuntu) with a dark theme. I understand the themes support a "dark mode", but this seems not to work with KDE, at least Money Manager still has a bright background in the sidebar and main view and also white text, which makes both unuseable. Can I force "dark mode" to be used? If not, what exactly is MMEX looking for to enable Dark Mode?

Second: Currently MMEX crashes on every single report as soon as I open it, due to an exception in WebKit.
Is this a known issue? If not, how can we trace it?

Third: Categories.
* MMEX seems to support hierarchical categories, but not when importing. Is this correct? It would be really good if users could specify a character (e.g. ":" or "|") to convert CSV values like "Home|Rent", "Home|Heating", Home|Repairs" into one "Home" category with three subcategories during import.
* Can MMEX autoassign categories to transactions when they are loaded / imported or manually, based on keywords in the description, the amount (equal, larger, smaller) or keywords in the recipient/sender?
* Can MMEX assign colors (background/foreground) to categories so that transactions get colored appropriately? That could help a lot when browsing the transactions view. Alternatively, or in addition, category icons?
* How do I reorganize / regroup categories? I first tried to use drag & drop in the categories view, but this doesn't work.

Next up: transactions view:
* Can I customize the order of the columns in the transactions view?
* Can I add additional custom columns and import CSV data into them?
My transactions have a description (supplied by the bank) AND a comment (supplied by me when checking).
* Also it would be very useful to have an "Active" checkbox besides each transaction to be able to (temporarily) disable this transaction, which would make it invisible to reports and summaries, but still existing in the database. This is very useful to search for inconsistencies during bookkeeping.
* When selecting several transactions, a summary display above or below would be very good (number of transactions, total sum, date range, etc).
* It seems to be possible to color code certain transactions.

Finally, import:
* I read on the Github issues that online connections to banks are planned. This is a killer must-have feature for me since I do everything online and regularly downloading a dozen CSV files to update my transactions is completely impossible. If this is planned, can we pretty please implement a "one-button sync" solution which simply iterates through all online accouns and downloads all new transactions, and maybe even does this automatically in a configurable interval, e.g. every X hours, daily, or once on startup?
* As long as this isn't yet available, can I script the import process on the commandline, i.e. something like `mmex --import myfile.csv --config 1`, or (alternatively) can I directly populate the SQLite table CHECKINGACCOUNT_V1? Any pitfalls I should expect?
* when importing from a CSV file, how must the CSV file be formatted for split transactions? Is this even possible yet? I have several such transactions saved in a legacy app (which, incidentally, also uses SQLite as backend) and I'd like to export this data in a suitable format.

I think that was all - so far

Again - I'm willing to help implement these things, if you think they make sense for MMEX.

Hoping for some positive answers.

Thank you!

[whall3y]

I just discovered MMex (1.5.1, 64bit, installed from a .deb package) and I must say I'm quite relieved that there is an open source finance app with this feature set, after considering other options like Moneydance, KmyMoney and Firefly. I'm now trying to get this to work with me, or vice versa, and have some quetions. Maybe somebody can help getting me started?

Welcome.

Please note that I'd be perfectly happy to help implement these features if they aren't planned yet, but may need some guidance on how to get started. I do some software development, but so far none in C++.

More than happy to welcome more developers, especially to help with the Linux port. There are some good feature suggestions here.

First things first, I run KDE Neon (based on Ubuntu) with a dark theme. I understand the themes support a "dark mode", but this seems not to work with KDE, at least Money Manager still has a bright background in the sidebar and main view and also white text, which makes both unuseable. Can I force "dark mode" to be used? If not, what exactly is MMEX looking for to enable Dark Mode?

There has been some discussion on this... https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/4230

Second: Currently MMEX crashes on every single report as soon as I open it, due to an exception in WebKit.
Is this a known issue? If not, how can we trace it?

Discussion here: https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/3212. You need to ensure you have wxWidgets 3.1.x

Third: Categories.
* MMEX seems to support hierarchical categories, but not when importing. Is this correct? It would be really good if users could specify a character (e.g. ":" or "|") to convert CSV values like "Home|Rent", "Home|Heating", Home|Repairs" into one "Home" category with three subcategories during import.

My understanding for CSV import is that the category and subcategory need to be specified as separate fields in the CSV.

* Can MMEX autoassign categories to transactions when they are loaded / imported or manually, based on keywords in the description, the amount (equal, larger, smaller) or keywords in the recipient/sender?

Don't think this is currently supported, categories need to be manually assigned.

* Can MMEX assign colors (background/foreground) to categories so that transactions get colored appropriately? That could help a lot when browsing the transactions view. Alternatively, or in addition, category icons?

Assignment of colors is purely at the transaction level, coloring based on category or use of category icons is not currently supported.

* How do I reorganize / regroup categories? I first tried to use drag & drop in the categories view, but this doesn't work.

No, drag-drop here is not specified. It's a bit clunky and you would need to create the new category and then relocate existing transactions to this using the relocate dialog.

Next up: transactions view:
* Can I customize the order of the columns in the transactions view?

Only supported on Windows, it is a wxWidgets issue. https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/4160

* Can I add additional custom columns and import CSV data into them?
My transactions have a description (supplied by the bank) AND a comment (supplied by me when checking).

You can use the custom fields feature, but I don't think these can be used on import.

* Also it would be very useful to have an "Active" checkbox besides each transaction to be able to (temporarily) disable this transaction, which would make it invisible to reports and summaries, but still existing in the database. This is very useful to search for inconsistencies during bookkeeping.

There is status of VOID that may be useful here.

* When selecting several transactions, a summary display above or below would be very good (number of transactions, total sum, date range, etc).

Like this? https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/2914

* It seems to be possible to color-code certain transactions.

Yes, this is supported.

Finally, import:
* I read on the Github issues that online connections to banks are planned. This is a killer must-have feature for me since I do everything online and regularly downloading a dozen CSV files to update my transactions is completely impossible. If this is planned, can we pretty please implement a "one-button sync" solution which simply iterates through all online accouns and downloads all new transactions, and maybe even does this automatically in a configurable interval, e.g. every X hours, daily, or once on startup?
* As long as this isn't yet available, can I script the import process on the commandline, i.e. something like `mmex --import myfile.csv --config 1`, or (alternatively) can I directly populate the SQLite table CHECKINGACCOUNT_V1? Any pitfalls I should expect?
* when importing from a CSV file, how must the CSV file be formatted for split transactions? Is this even possible yet? I have several such transactions saved in a legacy app (which, incidentally, also uses SQLite as backend) and I'd like to export this data in a suitable format.

Yes, this bank integration is planned but not in the very near future....

Comand lin invocation of the import is not supported. There is a WebApp that posts data to MMEX so we could look to formalise the automation/API in some way.... https://github.com/moneymanagerex/web-money-manager-ex

Don't think we support split transaction import via CSV.

[dbolton]

For automatic assignment of payees and categories based on the description/notes field, I run an SQL script described here: https://davidbolton.info/articles/auto- ... anager-ex/

Once I got through a few months of transactions (which took a lot of work), it now saves me about 1-2 hours of manual work each month. It isn't as nice as an integrated solution (since it involves closing Money Manager EX to running the assignment script, reopening Money Manager if I need to add a new payee, then closing and running the script again).

You mentioned you had some development background. One possibility for auto-downloading transactions is to write a custom puppeteer script for your bank website to download the transactions automatically. Puppeteer lets you tell the computer which website to visit and what to click or type. Once all the transactions are downloaded importing the files is fairly quick, but a command line import feature in Money Manager Ex would be nice.

[jensb]

Welcome.

Thanks!

More than happy to welcome more developers, especially to help with the Linux port. There are some good feature suggestions here.

Let me try!

There has been some discussion on (dark theme bugs) ... https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/4230

I read this for a bit, but the suggestions there could not really improve the situation.
Do you have a commented / annotated theme for me to tinker with?

It also seems dark mode detection on Linux isn't implemented yet. Is this true?

https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... x.cpp#L112

Code: Select all

const bool mmex::isDarkMode() { return false; }   // Not implemented yet

Would you accept a PR that at least detects an environment variable IS_DARK_DESKTOP so users can choose?
Better yet (of course), an explicit Yes/No/Automatic choice in the settings window ...

(crashes in Webkit) Discussion here: https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/3212. You need to ensure you have wxWidgets 3.1.x

This is a problem since Ubuntu-20.04 (LTS) doesn't ship with wx-3.1.

My understanding for CSV import is that the category and subcategory need to be specified as separate fields in the CSV.

OK, I can work with that and modify my CSV files, but it seems to be easy enough to also support a separator character. Let me think about it.

* Can MMEX autoassign categories to transactions ...
Don't think this is currently supported, categories need to be manually assigned.

This would be a huuge plus, especially when auto-importing transactions via some API. It saves a lot of manual assignment work.
Again, would you accept a PR if I manage to get something working?

Assignment of colors is purely at the transaction level, coloring based on category or use of category icons is not currently supported.

Again, would you accept a PR if I manage to get something working?
Say so honestly, some things may simply not fit in the design model but I'd be willing to try.

* How do I reorganize / regroup categories?
... It's a bit clunky and you would need to create the new category and then relocate existing transactions to this using the relocate dialog.

This definitely needs some work

Next up: transactions view:
* Can I customize the order of the columns in the transactions view?
Only supported on Windows, it is a wxWidgets issue. https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/4160

I didn't necessarily mean "live", it can be an option in the settings.

* Can I add additional custom columns and import CSV data into them?
You can use the custom fields feature, but I don't think these can be used on import.

Hm. It should be possible to add custom fields (after definition) to the import fields. Noted.

* Also it would be very useful to have an "Active" checkbox besides each transaction to be able to (temporarily) disable this transaction ...
There is status of VOID that may be useful here.

Will this make the transaction be ignored in all evaluations, sums, reports, etc without deleting it?

* When selecting several transactions, a summary display above or below would be very good (number of transactions, total sum, date range, etc).
Like this? https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/2914

Yes, something like that. Has this ever been merged?

Yes, bank integration is planned but not in the very near future....

I will try to get aqbanking running, and then connect it to the MoneyManagerEx API. Let's see what we can do here. I'd prefer scripting the data import anyways.

Don't think we support split transaction import via CSV.

Not yet.

[jensb]

For automatic assignment of payees and categories based on the description/notes field, I run an SQL script described here: https://davidbolton.info/articles/auto- ... anager-ex/

I was thinking about something similar. Regular download & sync of transactions should be "cron capable", i.e. not *require* a GUI.
I'll have a look at this, thanks!

You mentioned you had some development background.

Yes. Mostly scripting languages but on my primary job I am learning C# right now as a sidekick (actually I'm an engineer). But I'm a long time Linux user, since 1996.

One possibility for auto-downloading transactions is to write a custom puppeteer script for your bank website ...

I think we can do better than that, especially in Europe. There is FinTS, a standardized banking API which thousands of banks support (and I think a public FinTS API endpoint is actually required by law at least in Germany). GnuCash uses the AqBanking toolset, which implements FinTS and it's OSS. And it has a CLI as well. So we don't even need to resort to web scraping.

[whall3y]

Do you have a commented / annotated theme for me to tinker with?

https://github.com/moneymanagerex/themes

It also seems dark mode detection on Linux isn't implemented yet.
> Would you accept a PR that at least detects an environment variable IS_DARK_DESKTOP so users can choose? Better yet (of course), an explicit Yes/No/Automatic choice in the settings window ...

Sure, go for it.

This would be a huge plus, especially when auto-importing transactions via some API. It saves a lot of manual assignment work.
> Again, would you accept a PR if I manage to get something working?

Yep, if it enhances the product then don't see why not.

Assignment of colors is purely at the transaction level, coloring based on category or use of category icons is not currently supported.
Again, would you accept a PR if I manage to get something working?
Say so honestly, some things may simply not fit in the design model but I'd be willing to try.

I think that coloring based on category might get messy as there are likely a lot of categories but I guess people may want to color some 'significant' categories. I can see value in this.

* Also it would be very useful to have an "Active" checkbox besides each transaction to be able to (temporarily) disable this transaction ...
There is status of VOID that may be useful here.

Will this make the transaction be ignored in all evaluations, sums, reports, etc without deleting it?

Yes it should do that.

* When selecting several transactions, a summary display above or below would be very good (number of transactions, total sum, date range, etc).
Like this? https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/2914

Yes, something like that. Has this ever been merged?

It is there for Windows and I presume Linux... it a wxWidgets bug that causes an issue for MacOS.

[jensb]

Hi,

the theme colors seem fixed in v1.5.14, which I just successfully got compiled. That fixes "dark" themes too, at least for now. I was using 1.5.1 before (a .deb), with wx-3.0, which had weird colors. So, let's consider that fixed.

About categories, please look at this thread I started: viewtopic.php?t=10579

Regarding summaries when selecting several transactions, I don't see this on my 1.5.14 build on Linux.

Regards

[whall3y]

About categories, please look at this thread I started: viewtopic.php?t=10579

I suggest raising feature requests on Github and then tracking it there.

[jensb]

Done.

[aguest2023]

I second to the feature of:

Hm. It should be possible to add custom fields (after definition) to the import fields. Noted.

I just started transfering to MMEX from Credit&Debit and really loving it. MMEX made it possible for me to just dump my entrie transaction history into it. Would really appreciate it if this feature is made possible in the future!

[StephenLeibowitz]

If the command line option was implemented, it would be possible to use it for a Web Connect facility. This post describes how it might work in Windows.

For QIF imports, add this batch file to the same drive as the mmex program. A similar batch file could be used for CSV:

Code: Select all

:: The /IMPORTQIF option is not yet implemented.
cd \Program Files\mmex-1.6.4-win64
:: Running the following START command should display the
:: “Import from QIF file” screen with the File Name field
:: populated with the parameter to this batch file.   
START "MMEX" bin\mmex.exe /IMPORTQIF %1

The use of an IMPORTxxx command-line option would be easier if the MMEX Instance Check was changed. My thinking is that if the requested database is already open in an MMEX instance, the import should be for that instance.

For Chrome users, associate the QIF file extension with the batch file. See Associate file extension with an App in Windows 10.


For Firefox users: Settings > General > Applications > Content type (QIF) > Action > Use other... (the batch file)

From the financial institution website, download the QIF file to import into MMEX. For Chrome users, In the bottom left corner of the browser window, click on the ^ next to the QIF file name. The following pop-up menu should appear. Click on one of the first two items:

Open
Always open files of this type
Show in folder
Cancel

[MartinArmstrong]

:: Running the following START command should display the
:: “Import from QIF file” screen with the File Name field
:: populated with the parameter to this batch file.

You can achieve this right now by simply dragging the .qif or .csv file onto the account's transaction list.

[StephenLeibowitz]

Martin Armstrong’s approach has merit, but I think it largely comes down to personal preference. And it is not unusual for an application to have more than one way to accomplish something.

There are some disadvantages of drag and drop. You would need to have the two windows visible on the screen. This might require moving or resizing one or both of the windows. Also, some pointing devices are less suited to DND than others.

Here is a quote from the Nielsen Norman Group:

The downsides to drag–and–drop are that it can be inefficient, imprecise, and even physically challenging, especially over long distances: if they run out of room, users might need to reposition their mouse or adjust their finger on a touchscreen. Thus, it often results in errors — the user drops an item in the wrong spot, and has to start all over again.

Firefox users would have to open a File Explorer window and navigate to the downloaded file before dragging. Browsing from the MMEX Import from menu item would usually be easier.

[MartinArmstrong]

It is not unusual for an application to have more than one way to accomplish something.

MMEX currently has:

1. Menu 'File | Import from | QIF (or CSV) Files'
2. Right click on an account in the Navigation tree and `Import from | QIF (or CSV) Files'
3. Drag and drop QIF (or CSV) file on to a transaction list.

You can even drag and drop multiplefiles on to a transaction list and MMEX will do the QIF or CSV Import for each file, one after the other.

There are some disadvantages of drag and drop. You would need to have the two windows visible on the screen. This might require moving or resizing one or both of the windows.

It is not necessary to have two windows visible on the screen or move or resize them.

1. Start MMEX and make sure you are displaying a transaction list.
2. In File Explorer (let's assume it is maximised so it completely hides the MMEX window) you now can highlight your QIF or CSV files and drag them over the MMEX icon on the taskbar, hover there for a moment and the MMEX window will pop up. Now drop the files in the transaction list.

Hovering files over a taskbar icon to pop up the relevant (running) application has been standard Windows functionality since 2009.

Also, some pointing devices are less suited to DND than others.

Maybe. But honestly I haven't experienced this.

I use the trackpad on my laptop rather than a mouse almost all of the time and have no problems doing drag and drop.

I've also tested it with a touch screen and I find it is OK there too.

Firefox users would have to open a File Explorer window and navigate to the downloaded file before dragging. Browsing from the MMEX Import from menu item would usually be easier.

Sorry, but this is just not true. The user does not need to "open a File Explorer window and navigate to the downloaded file". Just use the facilities provided by Firefox (or Chrome, Edge etc) to directly open File Explorer with the downloaded file highlighted. It takes just 2 clicks as shown and then you can drag the file straight into MMEX.

Firefox download.png (160.93 KiB) Viewed 7202 times

I'm not dismissing your idea but I am trying to show that it's not at all difficult to download a file and quickly import it into MMEX without having to make changes to MMEX command line parsing, the MMEX Instance Check, and file associations.

[nstein]

I second to the feature of:

Hm. It should be possible to add custom fields (after definition) to the import fields. Noted.

I have added custom fields to CSV import for version 1.7.0.

[alas]

I have several scheduled transactions. I like to enter them all for a year ahead. At the moment I have to click on each one and then click enter before moving on to the next one. This is tedious. I would like to be able to tell the software to enter all scheduled transactions for the next month with one click.

I did raise this some time back and received the amazingly helpful comment: ' Why would you want to do that?' Well, I do want to do that.

[whall3y]

Please raise a feature request here ... https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... .md&title=

[nstein]

I have several scheduled transactions. I like to enter them all for a year ahead. At the moment I have to click on each one and then click enter before moving on to the next one. This is tedious. I would like to be able to tell the software to enter all scheduled transactions for the next month with one click.

I did raise this some time back and received the amazingly helpful comment: ' Why would you want to do that?' Well, I do want to do that.

@alas Scheduled transactions have a lot more flexibility than most people realize.

You can set them to enter automatically ahead of time. Note that "Date Due" is the date when MMEX will enter the scheduled transaction. The "Date Paid" is the transaction date that will be used in the details of the next transaction. Whenever a scheduled transaction is entered, MMEX automatically increments both Date Due and Date Paid by the setting you have chosen in "Repeats".

For example, if you want to schedule a transaction to be entered one month ahead set the "Date Paid" one month after "Date Due", or if you want to schedule a year ahead of time set "Date Paid" to 1 year after "Date Due", etc. Then click the checkbox that says "Grant Automatic Execute".

So if you set "Date Due" = 2024-04-01 and "Date Paid" = 2024-05-01 and Repeats = Monthly, then on April 1st MMEX will automatically enter the transaction for May 1st, then it will automatically update "Date Due" to 2024-05-01 and "Date Paid" to 2024-06-01. On May 1st it will automatically enter the June 1st transaction, etc.

You can even enter a full year's worth of transactions automatically. Set "Date Due" to 2023-04-01 (note this is 12 months in the past) and "Date Paid" = "2024-04-01" with Repeats = Monthly and Grant Auto Execute. When you restart MMEX it will enter 12 transactions dated "2024-04-01" to "2025-03-01". Your next scheduled transaction will then be "Date Due" = 2024-04-01 and "Date Paid" = 2025-04-01.

Maybe that will alleviate some of the tedium.

[Simon1D]

That's a really nice feature, which will improve the usability of mmex for me - thanks for explaining how "Date Due" works, @nstein - I never used that feature, and tbh never saw the point of it, which is much clearer now. (I think I might have been blind-sided by the built-in dashboard feature Upcoming Transactions, which lists transactions which are scheduled in the next 14 days but which haven't yet been entered. (It disappointed me that "14 days" doesn't seem to be user-configurable.)

More generally, this makes me wonder what other neat features of MMEX might be hiding in plain sight, underappreciated by users like me (and I've been using it for over 10 years).

In the absence of anyone who knows MMEX inside out (and so understands how to use it effectively) having the time to overhaul the documentation, perhaps the best we users can do is offer little narratives describing how we use MMEX in practice, in the hope that this prompts more observations like this. There must be a fair few such things already on this forum - I need to read more ...

[Renato]

In the absence of anyone who knows MMEX inside out (and so understands how to use it effectively) having the time to overhaul the documentation, perhaps the best we users can do is offer little narratives describing how we use MMEX in practice, in the hope that this prompts more observations like this. There must be a fair few such things already on this forum - I need to read more ....

From my point of view, this is absolutely correct, the descriptions are completely outdated.
I also have trouble understanding all the functions that have been implemented.

Our users have many good ideas and if the developers are happy with these ideas, they are usually implemented in the post. Unfortunately, it is forgotten that these changes/extensions should also be documented. Of course, this makes MMEX much more useful for a few individual users, but unfortunately the vast majority of users can then benefit little or nothing at all.

When I programmed my first dialog-oriented accounting system in 1977, I was faced with the same problem. The specialist departments (such as accounting) made many requests, which I was then able to implement with many sessions. But as a developer, I lacked the necessary expertise to create self-explanatory documentation. I then turned the tables, when the specialist department had documented the necessary additions in the manual, I then implemented these features.

I could imagine that this could be handled in a similar way for future improvement requests.
The user completes the documentation (in English) and then a decision is made on implementation.
Of course, this does not solve the existing problem of documentation, but perhaps a few users can be found to help improve the existing documentation.

But despite the lack of documentation, I find MMEX to be a very helpful accounting system, even for beginners/laymen, and it's free to use.
I still think our developers are doing a great job.
A big thank you certainly also belongs to @guanlisheng , he has brought the Android version back up to date.

I'm sorry if I'm getting involved in this as a moderator.
I look forward to hearing your views on this post.

[Simon1D]

... I then turned the tables, when the specialist department had documented the necessary additions in the manual, I then implemented these features.

I could imagine that this could be handled in a similar way for future improvement requests.
The user completes the documentation (in English) and then a decision is made on implementation.
Of course, this does not solve the existing problem of documentation, but perhaps a few users can be found to help improve the existing documentation.
...

Agreed.
It's a much bigger context, but your comments remind me of the way Python evolves, in large part driven by PEPs (Python Enhancement Proposals), which are openly discussed and debated quite a lot before being finalised, never mind implemented and released (or rejected).
The existing documentation of MMEX is somewhat monolithic, and the idea of revising it is a bit daunting. I wonder - could improved documentation come into being through a collective effort to build a wiki, initially focused on ways to use MMEX?