How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
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How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
If my auto and mortgage accounts are just payees, I have no record of my balances which actually are debt. Essentially making blind payments with no record of payoff information.
If I make my auto and mortgage loans into term accounts, I can track the balances but none of my payments appear as "Where the money goes" because MMEX considers it a transfer.
I shouldn't have to choose to 1. maintain balance information; or 2. not see my biggest expenses on any expense reports.
I've only been using MMEX for a short time and I love it, but having no ability to manage the biggest expenses is a deal breaker. I would sincerely appreciate some help with this.
If I make my auto and mortgage loans into term accounts, I can track the balances but none of my payments appear as "Where the money goes" because MMEX considers it a transfer.
I shouldn't have to choose to 1. maintain balance information; or 2. not see my biggest expenses on any expense reports.
I've only been using MMEX for a short time and I love it, but having no ability to manage the biggest expenses is a deal breaker. I would sincerely appreciate some help with this.
- stef145g
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
MMEX is based on a simple principle.
Money comes In(Deposit) ---> ("Our System") ---> Money goes Out (Withdrawal)
Money moves around in our system as Transfers and therefore is not accounted.
For a loan, money comes in but is not Income in the true sense, and Money go out of our regular accounts.
Bank Accounts track our regular accounts, and Term Accounts track our other non regular accounts.
In order for us to be able to track something we need to set up an account. For our Auto loan, we need to set up an account in Term accounts. This separates money being confused with our regular accounts such as Savings Cheque and MasterCard credit accounts.
Bank Accounts
Savings
Cheque
Mastercard
Term Account
Auto Loan
What are the payees?
The Bank - Gives us the loan and gives us interest payments. We also need to make payments to the bank
This now allows us to create categories in order to track this. Categories:
Auto : Purchase
Auto : Bank Loan
Auto : Loan Interest
Auto : Loan Repayment
Assuming loan amount for $10,000 with repayment $500 per month, interest at $100 per month.
Transactions:
Account Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $10,000 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Bank Loan
Bank Interest: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $100 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Interest
Repayments: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Withdrawal $500 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Repayment
Money comes into regular accounts.
Important:
When a payment is made, we also need to transfer money from our regular account to our Term Account: Auto Loan
Transfer: Account: Savings to Account Term:Auto Loan $500, **Category: Auto: Loan Repayment
**We may wish to use a different category for the transfer
This allows us to show us the current balances, how much we owe, and how this affects maintain accounts.
This demonstrates how to set up and use the accounts, but it also highlights short comings in the reports. We need to consider some distinction between term and regular accounts. The other important thing is that not all money coming in is Income.
For a mortgage account, the initial deposit may me omitted and the account initialised as a negative amount. To adjust the Home page, the Asset can be used to correct this offset.
At present, the use of loans and mortgages tends to upset the grand total on the home page, which means that the simple model of MMEX in some instances has short comings which we can improve on.
For me, MMEX does not do everything, but is a simple and easy way to keep track of finances.
Taking into account and knowing the shortcomings, we can accommodate for shortcomings by using the other reports.
Money comes In(Deposit) ---> ("Our System") ---> Money goes Out (Withdrawal)
Money moves around in our system as Transfers and therefore is not accounted.
For a loan, money comes in but is not Income in the true sense, and Money go out of our regular accounts.
Bank Accounts track our regular accounts, and Term Accounts track our other non regular accounts.
In order for us to be able to track something we need to set up an account. For our Auto loan, we need to set up an account in Term accounts. This separates money being confused with our regular accounts such as Savings Cheque and MasterCard credit accounts.
Bank Accounts
Savings
Cheque
Mastercard
Term Account
Auto Loan
What are the payees?
The Bank - Gives us the loan and gives us interest payments. We also need to make payments to the bank
This now allows us to create categories in order to track this. Categories:
Auto : Purchase
Auto : Bank Loan
Auto : Loan Interest
Auto : Loan Repayment
Assuming loan amount for $10,000 with repayment $500 per month, interest at $100 per month.
Transactions:
Account Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $10,000 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Bank Loan
Bank Interest: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $100 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Interest
Repayments: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Withdrawal $500 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Repayment
Money comes into regular accounts.
Important:
When a payment is made, we also need to transfer money from our regular account to our Term Account: Auto Loan
Transfer: Account: Savings to Account Term:Auto Loan $500, **Category: Auto: Loan Repayment
**We may wish to use a different category for the transfer
This allows us to show us the current balances, how much we owe, and how this affects maintain accounts.
This demonstrates how to set up and use the accounts, but it also highlights short comings in the reports. We need to consider some distinction between term and regular accounts. The other important thing is that not all money coming in is Income.
For a mortgage account, the initial deposit may me omitted and the account initialised as a negative amount. To adjust the Home page, the Asset can be used to correct this offset.
At present, the use of loans and mortgages tends to upset the grand total on the home page, which means that the simple model of MMEX in some instances has short comings which we can improve on.
For me, MMEX does not do everything, but is a simple and easy way to keep track of finances.
Taking into account and knowing the shortcomings, we can accommodate for shortcomings by using the other reports.
Regards: Stefano
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Sample: Mortgage Payment $1000 (interest $700, principle $300).
Under the current setup as Stef described, this would be entered as two transactions:
I wonder if it would be possible to add a checkbox (either on a per account or global basis) which would treat transfers to term accounts as "expenses" for the purposes of reporting and just ignore withdrawals from term account. Using the sample, the $700 withdrawal would be ignored (since it is from a term account) and the $1000 would be the amount in the Red/Blue bars on the home page. This way I think it would reflect how most people treat these types of payments and would make the reporting more useful.
I haven't thought through the ramifications of this fully or looked into the code to see how hard it would be to implement, just an idea...
Under the current setup as Stef described, this would be entered as two transactions:
- transfer from Checking to Mortgage term account of $1000
- withdrawal from term account in the amount of $700 (payee = bank)
I wonder if it would be possible to add a checkbox (either on a per account or global basis) which would treat transfers to term accounts as "expenses" for the purposes of reporting and just ignore withdrawals from term account. Using the sample, the $700 withdrawal would be ignored (since it is from a term account) and the $1000 would be the amount in the Red/Blue bars on the home page. This way I think it would reflect how most people treat these types of payments and would make the reporting more useful.
I haven't thought through the ramifications of this fully or looked into the code to see how hard it would be to implement, just an idea...
- stef145g
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Term accounts were originally intended for a greater variety of investment type accounts, in order to split the presentation of account balances. This also works well for loans, but tends to upset the current reporting structure to some degree. Treating transfers to term accounts as expenses, would not work, because this would affect this account type when used for the original purpose.
If we create a separate account type: Loan Accounts, this could possibly become feasible. Further analysis using this approach would be required.
Using the "Adding a check box" approach, would need to be done on a transaction basis., This information could be stored within the existing database structure by using a multiplexing method of data storage but this would add further programming complexity and possibly degrade performance. Therefore not recommended.
If we create a separate account type: Loan Accounts, this could possibly become feasible. Further analysis using this approach would be required.
Using the "Adding a check box" approach, would need to be done on a transaction basis., This information could be stored within the existing database structure by using a multiplexing method of data storage but this would add further programming complexity and possibly degrade performance. Therefore not recommended.
Regards: Stefano
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Thank you for your help. Great software!
- stef145g
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Giving this question a bit more thought, has given me a better solution to tracking mortgages.
In the above examples, we consider income as remaining within the system, therefore we transferred money from Savings to Term Accounts.
If we consider that for a mortgage, we have 2 systems in MMEX, the solution becomes simpler. This means that if we view our repayments as an expenses, we also need to consider that our home as an asset, is actually providing us with an income in the form of savings. Setting this up in MMEX now becomes simple.
In Term Accounts , when we set up our Home loan account with a negative value, we also need to add an Asset to the same value as the home loan to offset this negative amount.
Money Flow:
( (+) Money IN: Wages ) ----> (MMEX Bank Account: Savings) ---> ( (-) Money OUT: Home loan repayment )
( (+) Money IN: Home loan repayment Asset) ---> (MMEX Term Account: Home loan) ---> ( ((-) * (-) = +) Money OUT: Home Loan amount reduction)
In this scenario, interest on the loan is added to the Term Account: Home loan as a withdrawal. This makes the loan repayment bigger.
According to MMEX, money goes out of the system via Bank Accounts and comes back in as an asset increase.This way the reports now behave correctly to some degree. If we only consider true income being added to Bank Accounts, and discard any income from Term Accounts as being true income, then this creates a better view of our finance position.
Hopefully this is a better solution.
In the above examples, we consider income as remaining within the system, therefore we transferred money from Savings to Term Accounts.
If we consider that for a mortgage, we have 2 systems in MMEX, the solution becomes simpler. This means that if we view our repayments as an expenses, we also need to consider that our home as an asset, is actually providing us with an income in the form of savings. Setting this up in MMEX now becomes simple.
Because of the above statement, we can also treat accounts in Term Accounts as separate from money comes in and out of Bank accounts.Bank Accounts track our regular accounts, and Term Accounts track our other non regular accounts.
In Term Accounts , when we set up our Home loan account with a negative value, we also need to add an Asset to the same value as the home loan to offset this negative amount.
Money Flow:
( (+) Money IN: Wages ) ----> (MMEX Bank Account: Savings) ---> ( (-) Money OUT: Home loan repayment )
( (+) Money IN: Home loan repayment Asset) ---> (MMEX Term Account: Home loan) ---> ( ((-) * (-) = +) Money OUT: Home Loan amount reduction)
In this scenario, interest on the loan is added to the Term Account: Home loan as a withdrawal. This makes the loan repayment bigger.
According to MMEX, money goes out of the system via Bank Accounts and comes back in as an asset increase.This way the reports now behave correctly to some degree. If we only consider true income being added to Bank Accounts, and discard any income from Term Accounts as being true income, then this creates a better view of our finance position.
Hopefully this is a better solution.
Regards: Stefano
- fitikoko
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Great software !
By the way very interesting topic. You are describing, I think, most important thing for those who have several mortgages, cash loans, etc. in different banks.
I wonder guys if you plan to implement additional account for mortgage loans, cash loans, etc.
It would be nice to be able to generate reports for all loans in our household and know how much actually goes to the bank paid in interest and how much paid in principal :)
The best solution in mmex would be a transfer from the current account to credit account, as it is in real life (in our banks), treating transactions from current account to credit account as an expense (because in real life it is our expense. Finally we have to give money back to the bank) and brake installment into two parts: principal and interest.
Anyway, Thank You so much guys for what you have done so far
By the way very interesting topic. You are describing, I think, most important thing for those who have several mortgages, cash loans, etc. in different banks.
I wonder guys if you plan to implement additional account for mortgage loans, cash loans, etc.
It would be nice to be able to generate reports for all loans in our household and know how much actually goes to the bank paid in interest and how much paid in principal :)
The best solution in mmex would be a transfer from the current account to credit account, as it is in real life (in our banks), treating transactions from current account to credit account as an expense (because in real life it is our expense. Finally we have to give money back to the bank) and brake installment into two parts: principal and interest.
Anyway, Thank You so much guys for what you have done so far
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
MMEX already can do reports to show this kind of progress towards paying loans etc.
I have similar reports to show savings progress, with graphs, accumulations per month/year etc.
MMEX can show any kind of report imaginable due to the powerful database under lying it and SQL/HTML custom report power.
I have similar reports to show savings progress, with graphs, accumulations per month/year etc.
MMEX can show any kind of report imaginable due to the powerful database under lying it and SQL/HTML custom report power.
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Hi there,
I'm just getting to know Money Manager EX and I'm already loving it.
There is just one thing I can't understand.. Loans and/or mortgages...
I can't get stef145g example to work.. Hope you can guide me through this..
Let's say I opened a Term "Loan" Account with an inital deposit of $1.000, so I have "$-1.000" in the balance. No interests have to be paid to make it easy.
I transfer $100 from my savings account every month to the "Loan" account, so the amount is now $-900.
Following stef145g's example, I would make a "Withdrawal $100 Payee=Bank", which I could recognise as an expense, but the amount of my Term "Loan" account would switch back to $-1.000!?
I hope you understand what my problem is, english isn't my native language and I seem to have problems expressing my question..
Hope you can help me anyways, would be great if you could make it work for me!
Thanks in advance!!
Alex
I'm just getting to know Money Manager EX and I'm already loving it.
There is just one thing I can't understand.. Loans and/or mortgages...
I can't get stef145g example to work.. Hope you can guide me through this..
Let's say I opened a Term "Loan" Account with an inital deposit of $1.000, so I have "$-1.000" in the balance. No interests have to be paid to make it easy.
I transfer $100 from my savings account every month to the "Loan" account, so the amount is now $-900.
Following stef145g's example, I would make a "Withdrawal $100 Payee=Bank", which I could recognise as an expense, but the amount of my Term "Loan" account would switch back to $-1.000!?
I hope you understand what my problem is, english isn't my native language and I seem to have problems expressing my question..
Hope you can help me anyways, would be great if you could make it work for me!
Thanks in advance!!
Alex
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Up, is maybe managing of loans easier in v1.3.5?
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Unfortunately this functionality does not changed in 1.3.5
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Hello Team,
I have been using Acemoney for the last 12 years, but am now evaluating MMEX.
It seems to be a good alternative and I am loving it
I have a home loan . Can you please inform me how it can be done in MMEX.
I went through the thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6019 but I am not able to understand.
It will be good if the tutorial is uploaded on MMEX official youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/moneymanagerex
I have been using Acemoney for the last 12 years, but am now evaluating MMEX.
It seems to be a good alternative and I am loving it
I have a home loan . Can you please inform me how it can be done in MMEX.
I went through the thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6019 but I am not able to understand.
It will be good if the tutorial is uploaded on MMEX official youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/moneymanagerex
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
stef145g wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:38 am
Bank Accounts
Savings
Cheque
Mastercard
Term Account
Auto Loan
What are the payees?
The Bank - Gives us the loan and gives us interest payments. We also need to make payments to the bank
This now allows us to create categories in order to track this. Categories:
Auto : Purchase
Auto : Bank Loan
Auto : Loan Interest
Auto : Loan Repayment
Assuming loan amount for $10,000 with repayment $500 per month, interest at $100 per month.
Transactions:
Account Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $10,000 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Bank Loan
Bank Interest: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Deposit $100 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Interest
Repayments: Transactions: Term: Auto Loan - Withdrawal $500 Payee=Bank, category=Auto: Loan Repayment
Money comes into regular accounts.
Sorry to revive this old post, but I can't understand how loans/mortgages work.
Following stef145g's suggestions, I find myself with the same issue illustrated above by user Alexex.
Is it not possible to include a tutorial to better manage Loans or Mortgages? Or possibly as suggested post a video on the youtube page?
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Very interesting post.
I also have problems understanding loan management (but not only,mortgages, bond management). Unfortunately it is a pity that for such a widely used MMEX there are few guides even from the users themselves (and not necessarily of the online help).
Currently I no longer use the option of keeping an account for loans (TERM ACCOUNT), partly because I happened a couple of times to partially pay off loans, and I could no longer figure out how to realign the remaining principal with the new repayment schedule.
I simply use a category PERSONAL LOAN or MORTGAGE, from which I withdraw the installment from my account . STOP. That's the only way to manage and keep track of installment expenses (maybe you could also break the category down with two expenses CAPITAL REPAYMENT and INTEREST LIABILITIES to be more accurate).
I really hope that someday the functionality for loans/mortgages will be implemented. Something is planned for version 1.7.3.
A request for new functionality is open here:
https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/3860
I also have problems understanding loan management (but not only,mortgages, bond management). Unfortunately it is a pity that for such a widely used MMEX there are few guides even from the users themselves (and not necessarily of the online help).
Currently I no longer use the option of keeping an account for loans (TERM ACCOUNT), partly because I happened a couple of times to partially pay off loans, and I could no longer figure out how to realign the remaining principal with the new repayment schedule.
I simply use a category PERSONAL LOAN or MORTGAGE, from which I withdraw the installment from my account . STOP. That's the only way to manage and keep track of installment expenses (maybe you could also break the category down with two expenses CAPITAL REPAYMENT and INTEREST LIABILITIES to be more accurate).
I really hope that someday the functionality for loans/mortgages will be implemented. Something is planned for version 1.7.3.
A request for new functionality is open here:
https://github.com/moneymanagerex/money ... ssues/3860
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
I really need help tracking Home Loan Mortgage too. I don't understand how. I set up a loan with a negative balance. Then setup a scheduled transfer transaction (withdraw wouldn't work because it didn't show up in the loan account). The only way I could make the loan balance be accurate would be to manually change the principal payment each month which is way to much work. Any ideas?
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
I need help to tracking home mortgage. Nothing I tried worked so far. I wish I started with the home mortgage account before entering all my bank accounts. I might have to move on to something else if there is no solution. Any help would be appreciated.
- Renato
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Re: How to I track auto and mortgage loans?
Freeware programs are as they are, extensions can be requested, but there is no guarantee of realization.
I don't believe that a developer will voluntarily invest several hours of work just to automate a manual booking every month.
The topic was already taken up in 2021 and has not received any further reactions from users or developers.
I don't believe that a developer will voluntarily invest several hours of work just to automate a manual booking every month.
The topic was already taken up in 2021 and has not received any further reactions from users or developers.
Renato Forum Administrator